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Post by Felicia Hf on May 23, 2016 10:24:39 GMT -6
I recently read somewhere that most literary agents immediately get a negative feeling when they read a manuscript and the beginning is a "waking up" scene... Does anyone know anything more about this? Or do you have opinions of your own?
I'm working on revising my novel and I realised that my first scene is a waking up scene as well... Though it's not the typical "waking up" scene as in describing the normal day-to-day morning life, but rather the "I-woke-up-and-realised-something's-wrong" scene, I'm still worried it might not be a great hook as the opening scene. Do you think I should change my beginning and start in a different way so that the manuscript immediately sounds off-putting?
Any ideas and opinions would be greatly appreciated!
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Post by angietrafford on May 23, 2016 11:11:26 GMT -6
I have been told this one, it got pointed out to me when I had two different stories started with people waking up. I don't know what it is about that kind of scene there is a slightly offputting to agents or publishers but I have always tried to avoid it. I have also been told to never start things off with dialogue unless it is something that instantly grab your attention like the last line of an argument.
I think that you should just look at the story as a whole to see whether or not that scene is needed as an opener.
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 24, 2016 3:25:38 GMT -6
Thanks - you're right. I'm going to look at the scene from a new perspective and try to figure out if it's needed at all. I was first worried there was no way I could replace it, but I think there's a way I can work around it and avoid the waking up scene.
I heard about the rule never to start with dialogue too, but I think you could still manage to get away with that one - at least if it's only a line of two of dialogue to open up with.
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Post by The Voice on May 24, 2016 9:33:19 GMT -6
I've also heard the "rule" about not starting with "waking up", but I've used it and wouldn't change it. If it's good enough for Stephen King (The Tommyknockers) it's good enough for me.
I think that the idea behind it is to avoid cliche plot devices, but if you feel it works or is an integral part of the story, stick with it. If you think you could change it without hurting the story, then experiment with different openings.
I guess I have a problem with the word "never" when it comes to writing. If you feel strongly about something, do it and forget what others may say.
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Post by Joy Pixley on May 24, 2016 10:10:39 GMT -6
I think the advice about not starting with waking up really means not to have the character wake up and start his day and portray that normal day until the conflict actually eventually happens. If they wake up and realize something's wrong and suddenly they're in the middle of a conflict, that can work great. So, wake up and realize your life is terrible and you should leave your spouse? Meh. Wake up and realize you're pinned under a crashed car, you're in the wrong person's bed, you're being held captive, or in a drunken stupor you just violated the conditions of your parole last night? I'd say that could work.
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Post by Joy Pixley on May 24, 2016 10:12:24 GMT -6
Like Chris, I also have a problem with "never" and "rules" when it comes to writing. Grammar and spelling have rules. Writing has styles and guidelines, that work better or worse depending on context and the specific skills of the writer.
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 25, 2016 9:19:28 GMT -6
I agree: I don't much like rules when it comes to writing. That's why I was a little startled when I read on an agent's bio that he hated novels that began with a waking up scene, and it would immediately stop him from reading. When I searched around a bit, I realised that it was sort of an unspoken rule amongst agents. (It's strange, because even The Hunger Games starts with such a scene, describing the morning before the reaping. And yet that one was successful...)
I don't think the scene is imperative as a beginning in my novel though. I've been playing around with it a bit and I realise that there's another way I could start, which actually at the same time solves another slight problem that I had yet to address!
Thanks for all the feedback by the way!
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Post by angietrafford on May 25, 2016 10:42:28 GMT -6
I think it is just that they are looking to avoid what they see as an obvious start to a story. I guess I am quite lucky in that my work in progress begins inside someone's dream, so, in theory, it is before they wake up. I must say, with this story a day challenge I have tried the beginning scene of my work in progress in many different forms. I actually really liked the first person take on it although if I choose that I would have to rewrite the entire novel so far! Daunting!
If you were an agent and you had to read several books a day that began with, "I woke up…" Or "the alarm pierced his sleeping mind…" Then you would properly dislike that start to a novel as well!
I think it worked for Stephen King because he only used that I am one of his novels (I think, could be wrong!)
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Post by Joy Pixley on May 25, 2016 13:00:40 GMT -6
Well, if you want to get an agent and most agents hate Thing X, then even if you have a good argument that Thing X is (or could be) perfectly fine, you're still probably better off to avoid Thing X if you can manage it.
Speaking of, Angie, I've heard the same thing about dream sequences: that people absolutely hate them, especially for starting a story.
I'm starting (ha ha) to think that there's no way to start a story that someone isn't already sick of!
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 25, 2016 15:53:16 GMT -6
Well, if you want to get an agent and most agents hate Thing X, then even if you have a good argument that Thing X is (or could be) perfectly fine, you're still probably better off to avoid Thing X if you can manage it. I agree. It's not a dead-set rule, but it is a hint as to what will probably stop agents from reading your work. Angie's right: I suppose if I were reading manuscript after manuscript always starting with someone waking up, I think I would grow tired of that pretty quickly too! I think with dream sequences, it's more that agents hate when you're writing something with lots of suspense in it, and then at the climax it just breaks off and the character is like "oh, thank god, that was just a dream". (Though -Angie- I don't know how you're scene plays out.) I think that's a general thing to avoid though - not specifically just related to the opening scene of a novel.
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Post by angietrafford on May 26, 2016 6:17:22 GMT -6
Unfortunately for my character, Jordan, it all works out to be just a dream but that means that he is no longer a spirit so it all goes downhill from there for him. It is not your usual dream sequence because it is an introduction to the world of dreams which is what the whole novel is about.
One of my beta readers suggested the use of a prologue but I have heard that agents really don't like this either.
I wonder (like Joy) if there is a way to start a novel that is considered acceptable!
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 26, 2016 6:30:21 GMT -6
Hmm, that sounds interesting! Well, I think if your entire novel is about the world of dreams, then I can't think of a better way to start that! There's probably not a single way to start a novel that hasn't already been written (at least in the broadest sense), so just try and freshen it up and know that this is the way your novel has to start. At least that's what I'm trying to do right now
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Post by The Voice on May 26, 2016 6:55:44 GMT -6
I think dreams are one of those plot devices that can be overused and if a writer is using it as a crutch, it's considered poor writing (The old television show Dallas used it to bring back the character "Bobby" who had died. They killed him off and then used the "It was all just a dream" trick and everyone hated it). On the other hand, if you have a movie like "Inception" or "Nightmare on Elm Street", where the dream world is an integral part of the story, it works just fine. From what I've read of Angie's story, that seems to be the case here. I've come to believe that there may be little to nothing that is original anymore, but that's ok. If you can find a way to breath new life into old ideas, go for it. How many different ways have we seen the basic plot structure of Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None"? Felicia, if you decide to share what you've written here, I'd love to see what you're working on. Or save it for when it's finished, but you have to promise me an autographed copy of the book.
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 26, 2016 7:53:29 GMT -6
Felicia, if you decide to share what you've written here, I'd love to see what you're working on. Or save it for when it's finished, but you have to promise me an autographed copy of the book. Sure! I'll share the opening scene first, since the rest is still only slowly taken proper shape Basically, I had a scene with the protagonist waking up and realising that something is wrong. Once he gets outside, his house goes up in flames behind him. The other problem however that I realised (apart from using the over-used waking up scene) was that the house burnt down with barely two minutes, with the parents inside, who never even scream. I'll share the old scene and the new one. Feel free to criticise either! I hope the more recent version solves both of my problems...
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Post by Felicia Hf on May 26, 2016 7:56:12 GMT -6
This is the first version:
Aeolos woke with a start. His head was throbbing and he had a growing feeling of unease. Something about the air was different. It was drier and heavier than usual. He propped himself up on his elbow and closed his eyes for a second, hoping the pain would go away. Slowly, he pulled himself up to a sitting position. After a few more seconds of silence, he got up, careful not to make any sudden motion that would make the pain stronger. There was an eerie quiet hanging over the house, and he could barely see anything in the dim light.
He needed a glass of water to clear his head. Climbing down the stairs, he glanced out the window. In the shadows of the moon, Aeolos thought he saw a sudden movement between the trees behind his house. He stopped walking, trying to get a closer look, but all was still again, except for the constant wind that rustled through the leaves. Aeolos was used to that. There wasn’t ever a day in Melyn without the slightest of breezes.
He wondered what the movement had been. A deer, perhaps? He needed his bow, he realised. Maybe he could already secure their dinner already.
Continuing his climb down the stairs, he now consciously watched for another movement in the trees, but there was none. Quietly, he left the house, softly closing the door behind himself. His bare feet felt the cold stones beneath them and he shivered slightly. He was dressed in dark clothes that seemed to camouflage him against the darkness of the forest. He trod lightly over the dry grass in front of his house until he reached the gate. Though he did not know it yet, the fleeting glance over his shoulder was the last time he looked on his house as it was. Their family’s house was located at the end of a road. Beyond it, the forest stretched out far into the unknown. Aeolos headed towards it.
In the other direction of the road, no house was within clear sight. The nearest was further down the road and covered by the thicket of the trees and bushes. An old pair lived there, whom he did not know very well and rarely saw walking about.
Entering the forest, Aeolos turned to the first tree on his left. Pausing for only a second, while he placed his left foot on a branch low enough, he listened again for movement. He heard only the wind in the trees. He shook his head, which had calmed down the further he went away from the house. He thought it must have been the wind blowing around his face that had blown away the pain.
He hauled himself up into the tree and continued climbing. He barely had to look twice where to place his feet. He loved climbing and had climbed this precise tree millions of times before.
Aeolos, like all people in Melyn, had yellow eyes and yellow hair, which lay in a tangled mess on top of his head.
When he had reached a considerable height he stopped. He stood tall, again looking about himself uneasily. After a few seconds, he slowly stretched his right hand upward, while steadying himself with his left. His fingers tightened around a smooth wooden beam and a strap. Carefully, he pulled the two things down until he held a bow and a quiver, which was filled with a dozen arrows, in his hands. The bow was about twice the length of his arm, made of finely carved sturdy wood. Along its lower limb, his name was engraved in beautiful calligraphy. When he had come of age the year before, his father had given it to him. Slowly his fingers traced along his name, before he took a deep breath and slung the quiver across his back. With the bow tight in his grip, he started the descent.
When he got halfway, a sudden flicker in the corner of his eye made him stop. He turned in the direction he thought he had seen it. His heart stopped beating for a second. Somewhere in his subconscious mind, he was aware that the wind had stopped too, but only later remembered this with any significance.
His house was burning, crumbling to ashes. For a second he was too stunned to do anything; then he started screaming. Not even realising what he was doing, he quickly climbed to the bottom of the tree and ran towards his house. All that was left when he reached it, was the metal sign that had once hung on the gate.
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